2328 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 3:55am Subject: William Smith interview link dghprobe3 http://www.trashvideo.com.au/Trash%20Confidential/William%20Smith.htm Ran across an interview with actor William Smith called "Tougher Than Leather" by Louis Paul. No mention of his SEARCH episode "The 24 Carat Hit," but there is interesting info about his career and includes a photo. --Don 2329 From: Mike Valerio Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 4:01am Subject: Re: Re: SEARCH Disappoints mvscreen >>>> I have to say after reading some negative feedback on our show, we all must realise that old TV shows are just that. They can never measure up to today's standard of one million per episode or more! <<<< I'e made the point several times. I guess I'll have to keep making it: I am NOT comparing SEARCH to today's TV shows. I am comparing SEARCH to its contemporaries (MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE, HAWAII FIVE-O, COLUMBO) and finding it does not hold up as well as those shows do. - MV 2330 From: Mike Valerio Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 4:06am Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion mvscreen Bob 2331 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 4:47am Subject: Re: SEARCH Disappoints dghprobe3 Hi Mike: Most of the time, our list tends to be freewheeling and various statements and observations get generalized and blended together. Many people have contributed to this interesting thread and a lot of valid points have been made. Your point that SEARCH compares unfavorably to other shows from 1972 is valid. I agree with the one who observed that Warners may not have been the best studio for SEARCH, but it may have been the one that gave Leslie Stevens the best deal he was looking for at the time in terms of ownership and other factors. Keep in mind that the shows you mentioned, MISSION, 5-0, and COLUMBO were long-running, highly rated shows. The networks carrying those shows believed in them, promoted them, and put them in better and better time slots. Also, the higher the ratings, the higher the budgets go. By the time SEARCH got on the air, Leslie Stevens, Bob Justman, Angel Tompkins and others were either gone were about to leave. That's why we try to find out whatever we can about the "behind the scenes" of the show, what little there is. By the way, folks can go to the Internet Movie Database and look up all the TV shows that aired with SEARCH in 1972 at the link below. How many of the titles does everyone remember? http://us.imdb.com/Sections/Years/1972/ --Don -------------------------------- --- In probe_control, Mike Valerio wrote: > I'm NOT comparing SEARCH to today's TV shows. I am > comparing SEARCH to its contemporaries (MISSION: > IMPOSSIBLE, HAWAII FIVE-O, COLUMBO) and finding it > does not hold up as well as those shows do. 2332 From: "Trevor William Douglas" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 5:08am Subject: Re: Re: SEARCH Disappoints trevoran87 Of course Mike is absolutely correct in his views. Another show that holds up well is The Invaders. Still worth watching after almost forty years. Trevor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Valerio" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [probe_control] Re: SEARCH Disappoints > >>>> I have to say after reading some negative > feedback on our show, we all must realise that old TV > shows are just that. They can never measure up to > today's standard of one million per episode or more! > <<<< > > I'e made the point several times. I guess I'll have to > keep making it: > > I am NOT comparing SEARCH to today's TV shows. I am > comparing SEARCH to its contemporaries (MISSION: > IMPOSSIBLE, HAWAII FIVE-O, COLUMBO) and finding it > does not hold up as well as those shows do. > > - MV > 2333 From: "Jim Alexander" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 5:27am Subject: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) probecontrol >...Another show that holds up well is The Invaders. Still worth watching after almost forty years. ---------------------- I agree totally, Trevor! In fact, I watched an episode (I believe it was called "The Saucer") just a couple of nights ago. THE INVADERS holds up well--and it's a little surprising that it hasn't seen any kind of major video or DVD release besides the 12-volume Good Times video collection they put out a decade (or more?) ago. Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2334 From: Mike Valerio Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 6:02am Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion mvscreen Offline Send Email Bob: >>>> Search doesn't hold up for one major reason: it was produced by Warner Bros. television whichhad never done a wheel show before...Universal invented the wheel concept with The Name of the Game and expanded it with the Sunday and Wednesday Mystery Movies...When NBC bought Search, Warner had never done this before and it shows. <<<< Sorry to say, Bob, but you've got your facts and your terminology wrong. SEARCH and THE NAME OF THE GAME were NOT "wheel" shows. They were "rotating lead" shows. This concept was NOT invented by Universal, but by Warner Bros. back in the 50s with MAVERICK (Jim Garner and Jack Kelly as rotating leads) and 77 SUNSET STRIP (Efrem Zimalist and Roger Smith). The "rotating lead" was invented at a time when a drama series shot six days a week for may 35 or 40 weeks a year...a tough burden for one star. One title, one premise, one production team, but multiple leads. FOUR-IN-ONE, THE BOLD ONES and THE NBC MYSTERY MOVIES were known as "wheels"...series with one umbrella title under which three or four separate series ran. One title, four premises, four production teams. Warners created the "rotating lead", of which SEARCH is an example. Universal created the "wheel", of which SEARCH is not. - Mike Valerio 2335 From: "Trevor William Douglas" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 0:41pm Subject: Re: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) trevoran87 Thanks Jim, I also hope they will release this great show on DVD one day. I have the series in fairly good condition from pay TV afew years back, but DVD quality would be much better. Trevor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Alexander" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:27 PM Subject: [probe_control] If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) > >...Another show that holds up well is The Invaders. Still worth watching > after almost forty years. > ---------------------- > I agree totally, Trevor! In fact, I watched an episode (I believe it was > called "The Saucer") just a couple of nights ago. THE INVADERS holds up > well--and it's a little surprising that it hasn't seen any kind of major > video or DVD release besides the 12-volume Good Times video collection they > put out a decade (or more?) ago. > > Jim Alexander > probecontrol@... > 2336 From: bob.greenberger@... Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 1:41pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion bobgrnbrgr Well, I thought i had my facts right. As soon as I read your post, Mike, I realized I was in error. Still, Warner made crappy TV shows compared to Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the Mystery movies. -- Bob > Bob: > > >>>> Search doesn't hold up for one major reason: it > was produced by Warner Bros. television whichhad never > done a wheel show before...Universal invented the > wheel concept with The Name of the Game and expanded > it with the Sunday and Wednesday Mystery Movies...When > NBC bought Search, Warner had never done this before > and it shows. <<<< > > Sorry to say, Bob, but you've got your facts and your > terminology wrong. > > SEARCH and THE NAME OF THE GAME were NOT "wheel" > shows. They were "rotating lead" shows. This concept > was NOT invented by Universal, but by Warner Bros. > back in the 50s with MAVERICK (Jim Garner and Jack > Kelly as rotating leads) and 77 SUNSET STRIP (Efrem > Zimalist and Roger Smith). The "rotating lead" was > invented at a time when a drama series shot six days a > week for may 35 or 40 weeks a year...a tough burden > for one star. One title, one premise, one production > team, but multiple leads. > > FOUR-IN-ONE, THE BOLD ONES and THE NBC MYSTERY MOVIES > were known as "wheels"...series with one umbrella > title under which three or four separate series ran. > One title, four premises, four production teams. > > Warners created the "rotating lead", of which SEARCH > is an example. Universal created the "wheel", of which > SEARCH is not. > > - Mike Valerio 2337 From: "lazenbyland" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 3:16pm Subject: Re: A Good Discussion lazenbyland Audiences nowadays are much more informed and questioning than they were 20 or 30 years ago. When Star Trek was on in the sixties and seventies, no-one questioned the fact that most of the universe spoke english, though they've since tried to cover that in the later series by saying that everybody had their own personal universal translator. But in Space:1999 there was definitely no UT and it was never explained how the moon was able to travel at faster than light speeds. It would never be accepted today. But Search was shown in a time when we didn't question anything like the above so it shouldn't really be judged by today's standards. I do think the basic premise of the show is a sound one however and would work if they remade today. With all the miniaturization that we have today it would be totally believable. Another show that I thought was great when it was shown was The Professionals which I think was too violent for the american networks. It starred Lewis Collins, Martin Shaw and Gordon Jackson. Its very , very dated nowadays though and extremely hard to watch. 2338 From: Mike Valerio Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 5:25pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion mvscreen >>>>> Warner made crappy TV shows compared to Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the Mystery movies. <<<< No argument there, Bob. SEARCH clearly was done on the cheap and it shows. - MV 2339 From: Mike Valerio Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 5:37pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion mvscreen >>>> I do think the basic premise of the show is a sound one--- <<<< As it was in the big screen motion picture that "inspired" Leslie Stevens' "creation" of SEARCH: 1969’s THE CHAIRMAN, directed by J. Lee Thompson, starring Gregory Peck, based on the novel by Jay Richard Kennedy. >>>>>> ---and would work if they remade today. With all the miniaturization that we have today it would be totally believable. <<<<< Well, if you saw the recent RUNAWAY JURY, you saw the same kind of tech being employed, complete with the Control-like command center run by Gene Hackman. - MV 2340 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 8:56pm Subject: Re: A Good Discussion dghprobe3 --- In probe_control, Mike Valerio wrote: > ...the big screen motion picture that > "inspired" Leslie Stevens' "creation" of SEARCH: > 1969's THE CHAIRMAN... As David Gerrold once told me, the big race in Hollywood is to see who is the first to be second. > Well, if you saw the recent RUNAWAY JURY, you saw the > same kind of tech being employed, complete with the > Control-like command center run by Gene Hackman. Well, SEARCH had more of a lighthearted approach to the surveillance angle. Leslie Stevens obviously felt that technology was a force that could be made to help humanity. The whole "swords into plowshares" bit. I've only seen clips of "Runaway Jury," but it seems to be more like Stevens' earlier "Outer Limits" episode "O.B.I.T.," which observed the negative side and misuse of surveillance. --Don 2341 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 9:04pm Subject: Re: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) dghprobe3 I've noticed that the scripts for "The Invaders" always tended to be adult. From what I could tell, that series never slid into camp or became juvenile. The only change occurred during the second season, when they introduced David Vincent to a group (The Believers) headed by Kent Smith (Dr. Laurent in "Probe.") --- In probe_control, "Jim Alexander" wrote: > >...Another show that holds up well is The Invaders. Still worth watching after almost forty years. > ---------------------- > I agree totally, Trevor!... 2342 From: "crayresearch2001" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 9:07pm Subject: OT: The Professionals crayresearch... --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "lazenbyland" wrote: > Another show that I thought was great when it was shown was The > Professionals which I think was too violent for the american > networks. It starred Lewis Collins, Martin Shaw and Gordon Jackson. > Its very , very dated nowadays though and extremely hard to watch. Many of the shows discussed on this list, I have never had the opprotunity of seeing, but I have collected and seen every episode of "The Professionals" and can say that while being dated, it's not any more (and maybe less) dated than SEARCH. CI5 (Criminal Intelligence) also used a computer to help catch bad guys back in 1977, although it was more realistic in an office setting than futuristic vis a vis World Secureties. The Pros fans are refered to as a "cult". I guess they could say the same about SEARCH fans, if there were more of us! As far as extremely hard to watch goes, that all depends on which side of the pond you're from. If you compare Pros to say The Sweeny or Special Branch, It was all pretty rough and tough stuff. In alot of theese episodes, the bad guy's walked at the end and this was part of coming to terms with the reality in police work or government mdddling in cases for a variety of reasons, This in very stark contrast to the American TV shows where most all of the time the star/hero always solves the case eg: Colombo,Cannon,The FBI etc. One interesting point to note is that 16 years after the last episode of The Professionals, there was enough interest in the series for a remake called "The New Professionals" which was relitively succesfil considering that there werent enough episodes made for syndication in the US. More use of computers and high tech gagetry, but all in a realistic/ beleivable way. Finally, my 4 cents : ) Don-2 2343 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 9:22pm Subject: Re: OT: The Professionals dghprobe3 Hi Don-2: Thanks for your insightful comments on "The Professionals." In a nutshell, it's probably ultimately fair to say that the initial intention for SEARCH was to be a sort of high- tech "Name of the Game." But after the set and format changes, it became more of a "Cannon" with computers. Any reactions? :-) --- In probe_control, "crayresearch2001" wrote: > Many of the shows discussed on this list, I have never had the > opprotunity of seeing, but I have collected and seen every episode of "The Professionals" and can say that while being dated, it's not any more (and maybe less) dated than SEARCH... 2344 From: Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 9:31pm Subject: OT: THE INVADERS probecontrol Don wrote: >... From what I could tell, (The Invaders) never slid into camp or became juvenile. The only change occurred during the second season, when they introduced David Vincent to a group headed by Kent Smith. --------------------------- When you say 'change' Don, are you saying that negatively, or merely pointing out the somewhat different direction that the series took? I just wanted to 'get your drift' correctly. ;) Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2345 From: "bfiler2002000" Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 10:06pm Subject: Missing Post bfiler2002000 I posted a message last night, I pushed the Submit button but it apparently didn't arrive. I spent several hours on it and, being basically lazy, would rather not have to try to write it all over again if there is some way I can recover and resubmit it. Any way I can do that? 2346 From: Date: Mon Dec 1, 2003 10:22pm Subject: Missing Post probecontrol >... I posted a message last night, I pushed the Submit button but it apparently didn't arrive. I spent several hours on it ------------------- Owtch! :( ------------------- >... and, being basically lazy, would rather not have to try to write it all over again if there is some way I can recover and resubmit it. Any way I can do that? ------------------- Perhaps it's still in your SENT box? Maybe you should look there. Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2347 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 0:25am Subject: Re: OT: THE INVADERS dghprobe3 Hi Jim: Nope, nothing negative about the introduction of The Believers to "The Invaders." The network and the producers probably decided it would add to the series if David Vincent had some help and not be "going it alone" so much. I think the move created some different dramatic possibilities they didn't have previously. (Also I couldn't resist throwing in the Kent Smith SEARCH connection.) --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Don wrote: > >... From what I could tell, (The Invaders) never slid into > camp or became juvenile. The only change occurred during the > second season, when they introduced David Vincent to a group > headed by Kent Smith. > --------------------------- > When you say 'change' Don, are you saying that negatively, or > merely pointing out the somewhat different direction that the > series took? I just wanted to 'get your drift' correctly. ;) > > Jim Alexander > probecontrol@s... 2348 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 0:35am Subject: Re: Missing Post dghprobe3 That has happened to me before too. You are online, and you try to compose a lengthy post to the list using the Yahoo "post" or "reply" commands, and you get thrown offline. Invariably, many IPs will detect the lack of activity of your account and throw you offline, thereby destroying your unsent message. One way to work around this is to remember to once in awhile hit a link somewhere, then close the page and go back to writing your post, similating "activity" to your IP. But sometimes we forget. :-) One way to deal with a long message is to compose it offline, then save it as a TXT file (if you save it as a DOC or HTM, you might throw in a bunch of artifacts making your text look messy). Then go online, click "post" or "reply" and paste your message into the post area and hit "send." --- In probe_control@, "bfiler2002000" wrote: > I posted a message last night, I pushed the Submit button but it > apparently didn't arrive. I spent several hours on it and, being > basically lazy, would rather not have to try to write it all over > again if there is some way I can recover and resubmit it. Any way > I can do that? 2349 From: "Ken Carroll" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 0:38am Subject: Re: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) hm1kjc > >...Another show that holds up well is The Invaders. Still worth watching > after almost forty years. > ---------------------- > I agree totally, Trevor! In fact, I watched an episode (I believe it was > called "The Saucer") just a couple of nights ago. THE INVADERS holds up > well--and it's a little surprising that it hasn't seen any kind of major > video or DVD release besides the 12-volume Good Times video collection they > put out a decade (or more?) ago. > > Jim Alexander > probecontrol@... I agree with you guys, I have been silent here for awhile but I had to pipe up at the mention of The Invaders. Great show! Too bad they didn't do a better job on the new version with Scott Bakula and bring it back to life. What did you guys think of that movie? I liked it, but I didn't care for some of the changes to the aleins attributes. Ken Carroll 2350 From: "Jim Alexander" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 6:19am Subject: OT: THE INVADERS and other remakes probecontrol Ken Carroll wrote: > I agree with you guys, I have been silent here for awhile but I had to pipe > up at the mention of The Invaders. Great show! Too bad they didn't do a > better job on the new version with Scott Bakula and bring it back to life. > What did you guys think of that movie? I liked it, but I didn't care for > some of the changes to the aleins attributes. --------------------------------------------------- Sorry, Ken. I can't give the TV MOVIE high marks. About the ONLY thing I liked about it was that we got to see Roy Thinnes. But if memory serves... I don't even recall that he played 'David Vincent', DID he? I guess I was looking for more of a nod to the original series. Why call it THE INVADERS if you're gonna change practically EVERYTHING about it? It reminds me of the I SPY theatrical picture that was out a few months back. I caught a few minutes on cable the other night. Ugh. On the other hand, a couple of movies that did NOT do well at the boxoffice--but that I personally thought had MUCH of the quirky feel of the originals were THE AVENGERS and yes... THE WILD, WILD WEST. Okay--bring it on. I can feel your eyes rolling out there. ;) Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2351 From: "actingman_jc" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:08pm Subject: OT: Discount Code For DVDs actingman_jc This is Off Topic since Search is not on DVD, but www.deepdiscountdvd.com is taking 20% off orders until 12/4 if you enter the following code at checkout: dvdtalk And you can see the discount in place before you finalize the order (so you can make sure you got it.) I just ordered the Battlestar Galactica DVD set, and instead of paying 85 or 86 (whatever it was), I paid 69.12. And that includes free shipping. I am sure we all have genre titles we would like to order. I even ordered The Christmas That Almost Wasn't and Jacques Brel Is Alive and Well and Living In Paris. Talk about eclectic tastes. 2352 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 11:26pm Subject: RE: everything previously gfwillmetts Hello Mike V Re: 'Search' not comparable to other series at the time. I agree with Don that outside of the criteria of production company, you'd have to balance it by finance as well. Hello Jim & Trevor Re: Invaders. It does make you wonder if 'First Wave' will hold in the future considering how closely it was based on 'The Invaders'. A good effects budget says nothing for the quality of scriptwriting. Hello Lazenbyland Where Star Trek's universal translator is concerned, I really wish their lips were out of sync with what the machine was translating then again, it would probably look too comic. As to 'Space: 1999', as much as I think it impossible, there was an explanation given to how the Moon got so fast & the episodes being out of order somewhat. It's the episode where they go through a black hole - just as improbable - & they arrive in an area of space with lots of populated planets. They still have the acceleration but it was never light speed. As I said, I find it implausible in whatever fashion. It wouldn't be that difficult for any large planet to haul it into its gravity & the stress alone would break it up. As a general comment & I'm extending this to comedy sit-coms that have done well in re-runs. We get 'Bewitched' over here on a regular basis & despite the odd 50s fashion sense in the early seasons, it's held up pretty well. What I am curious about is your 'Honeymooners' series. We never had it over here but I am curious to know whether it still works for you people without the DeLorean?? Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger 2353 From: Mike Valerio Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 11:57pm Subject: RE: everything previously mvscreen >>> I agree with Don that outside of the criteria of production company, you'd have to balance it by finance as well. <<< If you guys want to invest a lot of time and effort coming up with excuses as to why SEARCH does not hold up as well as another series of the era, have at it. The fact remains, SEARCH is not a television classic and it has not aged well. I say accept that fact and love it anyway. You don't need to justify it. - MV 2354 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:36pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion worldsecanalyst In a message dated 11/30/2003 12:14:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, marta@... writes: Patrick McGoohan is a god. :-) Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I'm willing to accord the characterization as genius though. David 2355 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:43pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion worldsecanalyst Remembering the programming for that TV season I would give SEARCH much credit. 1972-73 was a dead year except to the Mystery Movies. There was little else on the air except for some of the syndicated reruns. I cannot say it was a great series, but it was enjoyable for me then and now as a few of you have been helping me to see these episodes once again. SEARCH filled the gap for the action/adventure/foreign intrique TV series after the cancellation of Mission: Impossible and the airing of Six Million Dollar Man. 2356 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:52pm Subject: Re: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) worldsecanalyst I do miss The Invaders. Any hope of seeing it on DVD? There was a VHS release a several years ago. I can't say the revival was worthwhile. Matter of fact my wife and I were sorely disappointed. It good to see Roy Thinnes, but that was all. There was a shortlived Showtime series Odyssey 5 which we thought was a worthy reincarnation of Invaders though. End Run, David WorldSecAnalyst 2357 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 2, 2003 7:57pm Subject: Re: Re: A Good Discussion worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/1/2003 12:32:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, mvscreen@... writes: >>>>> Warner made crappy TV shows compared to Universal at the time and no doubt NBC was disappointed when Search didn't measure up to the Mystery movies. <<<< No argument there, Bob. SEARCH clearly was done on the cheap and it shows. - MV I'm more forgiving about that. The American economy at the time was spiralling downwards. Reflecting this the Apollo 17 launched in December 1972 was the last mission to the moon (It's launch preempted SEARCH that Wednesday night). 2358 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 0:59am Subject: Re: everything previously dghprobe3 Keeping things in perspective, it sorta reminds me of guys who still have fond memories of Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers, and other similar B-westerns. These are by no means the "best" westerns that ever were. Of course not. But guys saw these when they were kids and still have a fondness for them. No law against that. Same thing goes here for SEARCH, as we emphasize the sharing of memories about the show when it first ran. Many of us saw it when we were kids and we loved it, just as we did with "Looney Tunes" and so many others. Nobody's claiming it is Shakespeare. --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, Mike Valerio wrote: > >>> I agree with Don that outside of the criteria of > production company, you'd have to balance it by > finance as well. <<< > > If you guys want to invest a lot of time and effort > coming up with excuses as to why SEARCH does not hold > up as well as another series of the era, have at it. > > The fact remains, SEARCH is not a television classic > and it has not aged well. I say accept that fact and > love it anyway. You don't need to justify it. > > - MV 2359 From: "bfiler2002000" Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 5:35am Subject: Re: Missing Post bfiler2002000 Thanks for the comments dghprobe3...and thanks for not laughing at me. It was probably clear to you that I am a relative newcomer to the Internet. I was hoping maybe somebody had a sneaky trick that might retrieve my post for me, but it kind of sounds like it's gone for good and I will have to try to do it over again sometime later. This time, though, I will follow your suggestion and write it beforehand and save it as a TXT file in case my work disappears into cyberspace again... 2360 From: Michael Hendry Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 1:15pm Subject: RE: everything previously mvhendry Never had the 'mooners? Ouch. IMHO, Honeymooners holds up well. Partly nostalgia and familiarity, partly that rare combination of talent that leaves its mark in history. Also, as we have touched on here, it deals with timeless issues: human relationships and all our foibles just trying to get by. (Maybe it helps that I grew up in New York?). Mike --- Geoff Willmetts wrote: > Hello Mike V > > Re: 'Search' not comparable to other series at the > time. I agree with Don > that outside of the criteria of production company, > you'd have to balance it > by finance as well. > > Hello Jim & Trevor > > Re: Invaders. It does make you wonder if 'First > Wave' will hold in the > future considering how closely it was based on 'The > Invaders'. A good > effects budget says nothing for the quality of > scriptwriting. > > Hello Lazenbyland > > Where Star Trek's universal translator is > concerned, I really wish their > lips were out of sync with what the machine was > translating then again, it > would probably look too comic. > > As to 'Space: 1999', as much as I think it > impossible, there was an > explanation given to how the Moon got so fast & the > episodes being out of > order somewhat. It's the episode where they go > through a black hole - just > as improbable - & they arrive in an area of space > with lots of populated > planets. They still have the acceleration but it was > never light speed. > As I said, I find it implausible in whatever > fashion. It wouldn't be that > difficult for any large planet to haul it into its > gravity & the stress > alone would break it up. > > As a general comment & I'm extending this to comedy > sit-coms that have done > well in re-runs. We get 'Bewitched' over here on a > regular basis & despite > the odd 50s fashion sense in the early seasons, it's > held up pretty well. > What I am curious about is your 'Honeymooners' > series. We never had it > over here but I am curious to know whether it still > works for you people > without the DeLorean?? > > Gotta go > Geoff 2361 From: Michael Hendry Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 1:16pm Subject: RE: everything previously mvhendry Not as much time as you are spending trying to trash it. We have fond memories of it and are willing to overlook its problems. Get over it. Mike --- Mike Valerio wrote: > >>> I agree with Don that outside of the criteria of > production company, you'd have to balance it by > finance as well. <<< > > If you guys want to invest a lot of time and effort > coming up with excuses as to why SEARCH does not > hold > up as well as another series of the era, have at it. > > The fact remains, SEARCH is not a television classic > and it has not aged well. I say accept that fact and > love it anyway. You don't need to justify it. > > > - MV 2362 From: Michael Hendry Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 1:19pm Subject: Re: If SEARCH Disappoints, THE INVADERS does not ;) mvhendry Forgive me if you already know this, but there is a good Invaders yahoo group. We are trying like h-e-double-toothpicks to get a DVD release from paramount. Go check it out, and put in your two cents. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/invaders/ Mike --- yorktowncmdr@... wrote: > I do miss The Invaders. Any hope of seeing it on > DVD? There was a VHS > release a several years ago. > > I can't say the revival was worthwhile. Matter of > fact my wife and I were > sorely disappointed. It good to see Roy Thinnes, > but that was all. There was a > shortlived Showtime series Odyssey 5 which we > thought was a worthy > reincarnation of Invaders though. > > End Run, > > David > > WorldSecAnalyst 2363 From: kjcarroll@... Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 1:22pm Subject: RE: everything previously hm1kjc I agree with this too. I've been into Ralph Kramden since high school and now I've got my 3 kids into it! It's still one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. That show had the rare touch of the actors' excellent ability to be spontaneous and outrageously funny at the same time while hitting on many things familiar to the everyday Joe of even today. Ken ----- Original Message Follows ----- > > Never had the 'mooners? Ouch. IMHO, Honeymooners holds > up well. Partly nostalgia and familiarity, partly that > rare combination of talent that leaves its mark in > history. Also, as we have touched on here, it deals > with timeless issues: human relationships and all our > foibles just trying to get by. (Maybe it helps that I > grew up in New York?). > > Mike > > --- Geoff Willmetts wrote: > > Hello Mike V > > > > Re: 'Search' not comparable to other series at the > > time. I agree with Don > > that outside of the criteria of production company, > > you'd have to balance it > > by finance as well. > > > > Hello Jim & Trevor > > > > Re: Invaders. It does make you wonder if 'First > > Wave' will hold in the > > future considering how closely it was based on 'The > > Invaders'. A good > > effects budget says nothing for the quality of > > scriptwriting. > > > > Hello Lazenbyland > > > > Where Star Trek's universal translator is > > concerned, I really wish their > > lips were out of sync with what the machine was > > translating then again, it > > would probably look too comic. > > > > As to 'Space: 1999', as much as I think it > > impossible, there was an > > explanation given to how the Moon got so fast & the > > episodes being out of > > order somewhat. It's the episode where they go > > through a black hole - just > > as improbable - & they arrive in an area of space > > with lots of populated > > planets. They still have the acceleration but it was > > never light speed. > > As I said, I find it implausible in whatever > > fashion. It wouldn't be that > > difficult for any large planet to haul it into its > > gravity & the stress > > alone would break it up. > > > > As a general comment & I'm extending this to comedy > > sit-coms that have done > > well in re-runs. We get 'Bewitched' over here on a > > regular basis & despite > > the odd 50s fashion sense in the early seasons, it's > > held up pretty well. > > What I am curious about is your 'Honeymooners' > > series. We never had it > > over here but I am curious to know whether it still > > works for you people > > without the DeLorean?? > > > > Gotta go > > Geoff 2364 From: Michael Hendry Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 2:57pm Subject: Re: OT: Discount Code For DVDs mvhendry Hey, thanks! Just got the honeymooners box set for 28.80. I can't believe their regular prices, let alone a discount to boot. Mike --- actingman_jc wrote: > This is Off Topic since Search is not on DVD, but > www.deepdiscountdvd.com is taking 20% off orders > until 12/4 if you > enter the following code at checkout: > > dvdtalk > > And you can see the discount in place before you > finalize the order > (so you can make sure you got it.) > > I just ordered the Battlestar Galactica DVD set, and > instead of > paying 85 or 86 (whatever it was), I paid 69.12. > > And that includes free shipping. > > I am sure we all have genre titles we would like to > order. > > I even ordered The Christmas That Almost Wasn't and > Jacques Brel Is > Alive and Well and Living In Paris. > > Talk about eclectic tastes. > > 2365 From: Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 3:18pm Subject: DeepDiscount DVDs probecontrol Mike wrote: >... Just got the honeymooners box set for 28.80. I can't believe their regular prices, let alone a discount to boot. ------------------------------ Grrrrrrr! And I just placed my first order with them a month ago for both DICK VAN DYKE Seasons, the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA set, and a DEAN MARTIN & JERRY LEWIS box set. If I'd have waited a LITTLE bit longer, I could'a saved even MORE. :( 20% more, to be exact. ;) Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2366 From: Mike Valerio Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 7:30pm Subject: RE: everything previously mvscreen >>> Not as much time as you are spending trying to trash it. We have fond memories of it and are willing to overlook its problems. Get over it. <<< Didn't mean to burst any bubbles. I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on. - MV 2367 From: Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 8:38pm Subject: Bursting Bubbles probecontrol Mike wrote: >... Didn't mean to burst any bubbles. I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on. - MV -------------------- I'm not trying to play referee here, but I'd just like to think that this list is open to everyone's opinion--positive OR negative. SEARCH is an enjoyable enough show to be looked at objectively... right? Was it perfect? Of course not. No one ever said we need to keep all comments about the show 'uplifting.' ;) You were saying what you did about SEARCH with an informed, critical (and I don't mean that negatively) eye--especially when stacked up against other shows of the era. Whether the rest of us viewed your comments as 'right' or 'wrong', your opinions--along with everyone else's--are welcome, Mike. Agreed? Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2368 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 11:26pm Subject: RE: Re: composition & invaders gfwillmetts Hello everyone Hello Jim I find it a lot safer to compose a reply off-line. I have noticed, depending on the traffic yahoo is getting that any messages sent here don't necessarily arrive on the same day they're emailed out. Hello Don Re: The Invaders. In its own time, having the Believers set up was quite a revolutionary change for a series. I mean, how many times can you cry wolf before no one believes you or locks you up?? Only problem being it was done too quickly & should have built up to it. I wonder if it had reached another season as to whether they would have brought the conflict to an end or not?? Especially as you consider who the leader of the opposition was, actor Alfred Ryder. Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ 2369 From: "Aloma Pedersen" Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 11:46pm Subject: RE: everything previously bfiler2002000 Hi, this is bfiler2002000 and I'm replying (sort of) to your question about The Honeymooners. I don't understand what you meant about the DeLorean. The Honeymooners originally dates from the '50's. DeLorean the man may have been Around at the time (though he probably was not famous) but DeLorean the car Didn't come out till about the early '80's. The Honeymooners has to do with a bus driver, Ralph Kramden, played by Jackie Gleason who believes The big score is just around the corner, his neighbor, whose name excapes me just now although Kramden and ----- are a big part of American pop culture. What's-his-name is a sewer worker and is played by Art Carney, who just died, and their wives. Ralph's wife is named Alice and they fight a lot. But always make up at the end of the episode...he hugs Alice and says "You're the greatest!" and fade out. Most episodes deal with Ralph's and ----'s efforts to make the big score and lift themselves out of poverty and into the good life. If you get The Flintstones, you have a fairly good idea of what The Honeymooners is like because they ripped off The Honeymooners pretty much whole. Ralph's most famous catch-phrase is "Bang! Zoom! To the moon!" (Where he threatens to knock Alice...) "One of dese days, Alice, ONE A DESE DAYS...BANG! ZOOM! TO DA MOON!" I personally would say how well The Honeymooners still holds up depends on How well you like it, if you like it, you'd probably say It holds up very well, I never got the big deal about Jackie Gleason myself (though oddly Enough, I like The Flintstones.) The Honeymooners was off first-run TV before I was born, but Jackie Gleason was a big deal during my childhood Because of his top-rated variety show, they called him "The Great One" which I think was a double-entendre reference as well, as in "Great Big One" because he was a large man, probably weighed over 300 pounds. Oddly enough though, he was one of those fat men who are light on their feet and graceful, he could dance and sing. I could never get into The Honeymooners myself, but most people that I know think it's great. -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Willmetts [mailto:gfwillmetts@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:27 PM To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [probe_control] everything previously Hello Mike V Re: 'Search' not comparable to other series at the time. I agree with Don that outside of the criteria of production company, you'd have to balance it by finance as well. Hello Jim & Trevor Re: Invaders. It does make you wonder if 'First Wave' will hold in the future considering how closely it was based on 'The Invaders'. A good effects budget says nothing for the quality of scriptwriting. Hello Lazenbyland Where Star Trek's universal translator is concerned, I really wish their lips were out of sync with what the machine was translating then again, it would probably look too comic. As to 'Space: 1999', as much as I think it impossible, there was an explanation given to how the Moon got so fast & the episodes being out of order somewhat. It's the episode where they go through a black hole - just as improbable - & they arrive in an area of space with lots of populated planets. They still have the acceleration but it was never light speed. As I said, I find it implausible in whatever fashion. It wouldn't be that difficult for any large planet to haul it into its gravity & the stress alone would break it up. As a general comment & I'm extending this to comedy sit-coms that have done well in re-runs. We get 'Bewitched' over here on a regular basis & despite the odd 50s fashion sense in the early seasons, it's held up pretty well. What I am curious about is your 'Honeymooners' series. We never had it over here but I am curious to know whether it still works for you people without the DeLorean?? Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2370 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Wed Dec 3, 2003 11:51pm Subject: RE: Honeymooners meets Delorean gfwillmetts Hello Aloma When was the last time you watched 'Back To The Future'?? Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2371 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 0:53am Subject: Re: everything previously dghprobe3 --- In probe_control, Mike Valerio wrote: > Didn't mean to burst any bubbles. I'll keep my > opinions to myself from now on. - MV Hi Mike: Many have found this group to be rather passionate about SEARCH, so keep sending any opinions you have to the list. We welcome all. Actually your thoughts on SEARCH kind of echo what Tony Franciosa had to say in a 1975 interview posted earlier on this list. However, I'm told that he had nicer things to say in a later interview. Plus comments by the late Cleveland Amory of TV GUIDE. Entertainment journal VARIETY reviewed four episodes, and they only seemed to like "24 Carat Hit" out of the four. If you scan earlier postings to the list, you will find a number of negative views and reviews of SEARCH. Links to some of them below: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/probe_control/message/77 From 1975 Tony Franciosa interview on SEARCH: ...Q: Speaking of "Search," that series didn't last very long. Do you have any thoughts on why it failed? A: I never quite understood that show. I signed for only a year and was to do eight shows. It was very strange. I felt that the over-all premise just didn't work. Everyone went into it with the very best of intentions, but the execution was bad. As the programs turned out, I was not surprised--nor very disappointed--that they were not very popular. I thought they were pretty bad, to be perfectly honest... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/probe_control/message/74 Links to text of Cleveland Amory's 1-20-73 TV GUIDE Review of SEARCH, aimed at other reviewers, largely negative. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/probe_control/message/928 Links to text of 9-20-72 VARIETY review of "Murrow Disappearance." http://groups.yahoo.com/group/probe_control/message/929 Links to 10-4-72 VARIETY review of "One of Our Probes" & "Short Circuit." http://groups.yahoo.com/group/probe_control/message/930 Links to 1-3-73 VARIETY review of "24 Carat Hit." (VARIETY liked this episode.) 2372 From: "actingman_jc" Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 4:19am Subject: Another DVD Code actingman_jc Deepdiscountdvd.com sent me an ad today, offering 20% off if you use the code dvdsale at checkout. And it allowed me to use that code today, even though I claimed the discount yesterday using the dvdtalk code. The dvdsale code is good through 12/5. I think they just felt bad that Jim had already ordered stuff and want to give him a second chance to get something. 2373 From: "Eddie Schwartz" Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 4:35am Subject: Can't stop watching.... schwartzeg Just received my tapes from Jim and watched the first two episodes. The show is as good as I remember from my childhood. OK, so it's not as high-tech as "24", but considering the era in which it was shot, there was a lot of out-of-the-box, high-tech thinking and a refreshing amount of good old non-PC dialogue. I have been watching the discussions regarding how good the show stacks up compared to other offerings of the same period. I agree that the dialog could have been crisper, but compared to many of the shows of that era that are still in syndication, I think SEARCH holds up quite well. Thanks so much, Jim! Eddie Schwartz 2374 From: "Morningstar" Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 7:55am Subject: Re: everything previously am2star Ralph Kramden's neighbor was Ed Norton. The basic drive of the series was Ralph was always trying to better his and Alice's life with the big score. Norton was always there to help his buddy. Two classic themes: providing for your wife and helping a friend. Norton's wife was Trixie. Oh, Orson Welles called Jackie Gleason "The Great One" and the name stuck. Or, as Jackie Gleason said in an interview on "60 Minutes" "You saw me play pool." --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Aloma Pedersen" wrote: > Hi, this is bfiler2002000 and I'm replying (sort of) to your question about > The Honeymooners. I don't understand what you meant about the DeLorean. The > Honeymooners originally dates from the '50's. DeLorean the man may have been > Around at the time (though he probably was not famous) but DeLorean the car > Didn't come out till about the early '80's. > > The Honeymooners has to do with a bus driver, Ralph Kramden, played by > Jackie Gleason who believes > The big score is just around the corner, his neighbor, whose name excapes > me just now although Kramden and ----- are a big part of American pop > culture. What's-his-name is a sewer worker and is played by Art Carney, > who just died, and their wives. Ralph's wife is named Alice and they fight > a lot. But always make up at the end of the episode...he hugs Alice and > says "You're the greatest!" and fade out. Most episodes deal with Ralph's > and ----'s efforts to make the big score and lift themselves out of poverty > and into the good life. If you get The Flintstones, you have a fairly good > idea of what The Honeymooners is like because they ripped off The > Honeymooners pretty much whole. Ralph's most famous catch-phrase is > "Bang! Zoom! To the moon!" (Where he threatens to knock Alice...) "One of > dese days, Alice, ONE A DESE DAYS...BANG! ZOOM! TO DA MOON!" > > I personally would say how well The Honeymooners still holds up depends on > How well you like it, if you like it, you'd probably say It holds up very > well, I never got the big deal about Jackie Gleason myself (though oddly > Enough, I like The Flintstones.) The Honeymooners was off first-run TV > before I was born, but Jackie Gleason was a big deal during my childhood > Because of his top-rated variety show, they called him "The Great One" which > I think was a double-entendre reference as well, as in "Great Big One" > because he was a large man, probably weighed over 300 pounds. Oddly enough > though, he was one of those fat men who are light on their feet and > graceful, he could dance and sing. I could never get into The > Honeymooners myself, but most people that I know think it's great. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Willmetts [mailto:gfwillmetts@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:27 PM > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [probe_control] everything previously > > Hello Mike V > > Re: 'Search' not comparable to other series at the time. I agree > with Don > that outside of the criteria of production company, you'd have to balance it > > by finance as well. > > Hello Jim & Trevor > > Re: Invaders. It does make you wonder if 'First Wave' will hold in > the > future considering how closely it was based on 'The Invaders'. A good > effects budget says nothing for the quality of scriptwriting. > > Hello Lazenbyland > > Where Star Trek's universal translator is concerned, I really wish > their > lips were out of sync with what the machine was translating then again, it > would probably look too comic. > > As to 'Space: 1999', as much as I think it impossible, there was an > explanation given to how the Moon got so fast & the episodes being out of > order somewhat. It's the episode where they go through a black hole - just > as improbable - & they arrive in an area of space with lots of populated > planets. They still have the acceleration but it was never light speed. > As I said, I find it implausible in whatever fashion. It wouldn't be that > difficult for any large planet to haul it into its gravity & the stress > alone would break it up. > > As a general comment & I'm extending this to comedy sit-coms that > have done > well in re-runs. We get 'Bewitched' over here on a regular basis & despite > the odd 50s fashion sense in the early seasons, it's held up pretty well. > What I am curious about is your 'Honeymooners' series. We never had it > over here but I am curious to know whether it still works for you people > without the DeLorean?? > > Gotta go > Geoff 2375 From: "Morningstar" Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 8:28am Subject: Comments am2star I have been playing "catch-up" of the posts because I have not faithfully returned to the group often enough. Sorry. When speaking of whether "Search" holds up, consider this: What was LIFE like in 1972? The scenes that I have seen from "Probe" (I taped it about ten years ago) remind me of the times. Remember the gold-chrome and wood paneling? They were everywhere. "Columbo" and some of the other Mystery Movie shows hold up because they have been perpetuated. We have been in constant contact with Inspector Columbo for thirty years. Remember "Mrs. Columbo?" I watched "Banacek" a few months ago, and the biggest problem that I had with it was the hacking and the five minutes of content between the commercial breaks. I have not seen "Search" since 1973. I thought that it was a great show, and a girlfriend of mine who never saw "Search" liked "Probe" when we watched it. Of course, "Probe" was probably the best, if not the most expensive "episode" of the series. And, of course, first seasons are the most difficult to do. I doubt that there was much time to develop writing teams for the various characters or to "flesh out" the characters before production began (judging from the information that I have seen), so that probably made the season "rough." Of course, I think that the episodes had a great deal of thought to their story, if not the script. For instance, I remember the Nick Bianco episode where he is kidnapped and imprisoned on the island. I remember when Cameron was kidnapped and tortured by the veteran (which was probably the first time a television show talked about the horrors faced by Viet Nam veterans). I look forward to seeing these episodes again. I would love to see the series come out on DVD. "Battlestar Galactica" has come out, probably because there was enough interest to make a new mini-series. Perhaps someone will write a script for a "Probe/ Search" movie. In two hours there could be discussions of the need and fears of the spying capabilities (in some way what "Minority Report" alluded to). Of course, local stations are always looking for stuff to show to compete with cable. Perhaps some independent stations might show interest, like during the weekends. I mean, how many times can they air the crap from the 1990s? Also, Dominic Frontiere is still alive, perhaps if there is a disc containing his television works (including "Probe/Search" theme) there might be a gradual increase in interests. Also, "The Invaders" was good, possibly because Quinn Martin produced it. He was a very successful producer, and probably had enough control to stay on the vision that he had. Plus, his production company could produce a show cheaper than a big studio, like Warner or Universal, for television. As I recall, "The Invaders" was on ABC, the baby of the networks (like FOX was, and what WB and UPN are now). BTW, "The Invaders" movie with Scott Bakula sucked. And, "Star Trek: Enterprise" still sucks. "Quantum Leap" was good, but that seems to be the odd show. Did anyone see "Sibling Rivalry?" It sucked, also. 2376 From: Mike Valerio Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 5:54pm Subject: Re: Comments mvscreen I agree. SEARCH is a classic TV series and its quality has not been diminished by time. Plus, with its legion of lotal fans, SEARCH has the potential to be a huge revenue stream for Warner Bros. I'm postive that a syndication, cable or DVD sale is inevitable. There's no way that a show as good or as popular as SEARCH can stay on the shelf forever. Or something like that. - MV 2377 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 6:51pm Subject: Re: Comments worldsecanalyst >Also, Dominic Frontiere is still alive, perhaps if there is a disc >containing his television works (including "Probe/Search" theme) there >might be a gradual increase in interests. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2378 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 6:59pm Subject: Re: Comments worldsecanalyst >Also, Dominic Frontiere is still alive, perhaps if there is a disc >containing his television works (including "Probe/Search" theme) there >might be a gradual increase in interests. Sorry about the preceeding post with the quotation. It got away from me. So far the only Frontiere commercially available music is from The Outer LImits Year One. I still see the CD in dealers' rooms at science fiction conventions. Was there ever a soundtrack album for Modern Problems? Frontiere did compose for this lackluster Chevy Chase movie. Once I did hear what sounded like an expanded version of the Probe maintitle theme from a speaker when I was transacting business in a local bank during the mid-70s. It was part of the bank's Muzak package. The staff was clueless about the content and origins of the package. I wasn't able to follow it through. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2379 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Fri Dec 5, 2003 1:36am Subject: Re: Comments dghprobe3 Hi Mike: We're glad you joined the list. Debate and point- counterpoint is always appreciated. Everyone doesn't always have to agree. But there are many here who are passionate about their fave. And let us know your reaction to the later SEARCH episodes, the ones with the different format and Probe set. As I mentioned, VARIETY liked the changes. Most of us felt it shifted SEARCH more toward "Cannon" territory. As flame wars go, this list has been rather mild by comparison. If you were to hit a Westerns list with all the flaws of a particular B Western, there wouldn't be much of you left for the vultures. :-) --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, Mike Valerio wrote: > I agree. SEARCH is a classic TV series and its quality > has not been diminished by time. Plus, with its legion > of lotal fans, SEARCH has the potential to be a huge > revenue stream for Warner Bros. I'm postive that a > syndication, cable or DVD sale is inevitable. There's > no way that a show as good or as popular as SEARCH can > stay on the shelf forever. > > Or something like that. - MV 2380 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Thu Dec 4, 2003 10:10pm Subject: Re: Re: Comments worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/4/2003 8:58:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, dghprobe3@... writes: And let us know your reaction to the later SEARCH episodes, the ones with the different format and Probe set. As I mentioned, VARIETY liked the changes. Most of us felt it shifted SEARCH more toward "Cannon" territory. I remember Probe Control being redressed with a more lighted work area. It was an abrupt transition without ceremony or explanation. As I remember only Cameron was the regular P/C staffer. Keach, Griffin, and Kuroda were gone. The format quality took an alteration. SEARCH began as a technological thriller; only, by late season it became a crime drama. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2381 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Fri Dec 5, 2003 7:09am Subject: RE: Honeymoon Futures gfwillmetts Hello everyone Hello Mike V I thought the whole point of these chat sites was to talk about particular shows we liked, warts & all. It isn't as though we don't raise the warts question a lot anyway but at least we strive to find out why certain things didn't work. You went in hammer & tongs, so you're bound to experience some flak. Hello David of Yorktown Pardon me for asking, especially as 'Odyssey 5' has yet if ever to be shown on terrestrial UK TV, but how do you equate it with 'The Invaders'?? I thought O5 was about 5 individuals being pushed back a few years before Earth's devise to prevent it happening?? Hello Bfiler Don't know if this is of any use to you, but I tend to copy all my big messages & chat info into TXT files. It keeps the codes down & reduces any accidental or deliberate viral infection. Each month as an In/Out subdirectory & a diary keeps track of any acknowledgments. Makes it easier for reference & removing from your email server box. Hello Michael Hendry Re: Honeymooners. Well, we had 'The Flintstones' in the UK, which is probably pretty close from all accounts. :-) Considering the amount of US sit-coms we got in that period, it does make me wonder why your side didn't force it on us although I can’t recall it in our region if it was. By the by, considering how many old sit-coms have been revised & turned into films, I'm surprised no one's thought of doing it to 'The Honeymooners'. Would it stand up to revision today?? Hello Aloma Sorry for only giving a quick one-line reply last night. In 'Back To The Future', the McFly family are fans of 'The Honeymooners' re-runs & when Marty travels into the past in the DeLorean, he sees the show & is telling the gags in first run & confuses his later to be mother's family. Does my remark make more sense now?? I was in free mode connection when I made the comment. Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2382 From: dmanmetz@... Date: Sat Dec 6, 2003 3:58am Subject: Re: Re: OT: The Professionals dmanmetz@... Wow, with all the exciting discussions we’ve been having lately, I figured I had to put my two cents worth in. Cutting to the chase, sure we all know Search pretty much became a crime drama during the last 8 episodes and they are not as much fun the first 15 episodes, but at least we should be thankful that the producers decided to go the serious gritty route as opposed to going the camp route such as “The Man from Uncle”. But one thing we have to keep in mind is that Search was a combination of ideas taken from the movies and tv shows (James Bond, Man from uncle, the Chairman, Our man Flint, Matt Helm, etc.) but paved the way for future agent/ action shows of the 70’s (Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, The Invisible Man, Gemini Man, A man Called Sloan, etc). But Search was also ridding the wave of a popular format of the early to mid 70’s: “The gimmick detective” “The Gimmick Detective”. All over TV land (no pun intended) there were gimmicks in each detective series. Examples would be the following: (here’s the fun part, how many of these do you remember)) the fat detective (Cannon), The old detective (Barnaby Jones), the paralyzed detective (Ironside), Young “ hip with it” detectives (Mod Squad) The Blind detective (Longstreet), The Black Female detective (Get Christie Love) The white female detective ( Police Woman),”Fish out of Water” detective ( McCloud), Bumbling Slow witted detective (Columbo) The sexy detectives (Charlie’s Angels), The magic Detective (The Magician), The Black detective (Tenafly), Elderly lady detectives (The Snoop sisters) The old west detective (Hec Ramsy), cool detectives (Starsky & Hutch), Based on real life detective (Toma), Movies adapted for tv detectives (Shaft, Madigan, Matt Helm), location is the star detective (Kodiak, Nakia, Hawaii Five-O, Streets of San Francisco) The Ex- Con detective (The Rockford Files), The period piece detective (Banyon), The Polish detective (Banacek), The Bald detective (Kojak), The Husband and wife detectives (McMillian and Wife), The Priest detective (Sarge), The ex-cop slowly dying detective (Harry-O), The medical detective (Quincy) and for some reason I don’t know what gimmick Mannix was? He started out kind of like Search in first season working for a large firm which relyed computers and then for the next 7 seasons, he was on his own beating the crap out everybody and getting shot. I guess he was the violent detective? You tell me. Oh yeah let’s forget the reason we are here…………………………..The electronic detective (Search). Well, many of these shows liked and still due, but gimmicks only go so far and only three of them managed to successfully get past their gimmick based strong characters, good acting, and good writing and they were in one man’s opinion, The Rockford Files, Colombo, and even though it only made two seasons (Harry-O). And when I say this I mean this in all honesty and in a non- prejudice way. My all time favorite (Sorry guys, Search is my number two,) Starsky & Hutch never could top the format and quality of the first two seasons. The last two were pretty lame due to the fact that poor writing couldn’t overcome the gimmick. Any opinions? Chris 2383 From: dmanmetz@... Date: Sat Dec 6, 2003 5:27am Subject: Night Gallery/ Search Guest Stars headcount dmanmetz@... Recently, I have recently gotten hooked on Rod Serling’s Night Gallery (1970-1973) on the Mystery channel (weekdays 1100am & 300am). I’m sure a lot of you are familiar with the show. It’s like an updated 70’s version of The Twilight Zone. Part of the fun for me is to get snap shot of the 1970’s (clothes, hairstyles, cars, slang, etc), The Man himself, Rod Serling, good stories, and the best part; The guest stars. What I have noticed that a lot of it’s guest stars went on to star or guest star on Search. Among the stars are Mr. VCR Cameron himself (Burgess Meredith in two episodes), Gloria “I want to marry Lockwood” Harding (Angel Tompkins), Dr. Barnett number one Ford Rainy and Arnold “what is shaken baby” Griffin (Albert Popwell in two episodes). Among the guest stars are: Jeff Corey (Short Circuit), James B. Sikking in two episodes (Moment of Madness), Bert Convey (Numbered for Death), Patrick O’Neal (Moment of Madness), Wally Cox (The Twenty-Four Carat Hit), Larry Linville (One of Our Probes is Missing), Cameron Mitchell in 2 episodes (The Mattson Papers), Bill Bixby in two episodes (The Adonis File), Kent Smith in 2 episodes (Probe Pilot), James Gregory (Operation Iceman), Ed Nelson (Countdown to Panic), Dane Clark (The Twenty-Four Carat Hit),and Brooke Bundy (Moment of Madness). For those of you who weren’t counting, that was a total of 17 actors and actresses who later appear on Search. Meaningless trivia for all to enjoy. Chris 2384 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Sat Dec 6, 2003 11:08pm Subject: Re: Mike V - honest opinion of the theme music, huh?? gfwillmetts Hello Mike V I know you were down on a lot of 'Search' but you didn't say whether you enjoyed the theme music or not?? A lot of comments from newbies to this chatsite have let off with Frontier’s theme music. Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2385 From: Mike Valerio Date: Sun Dec 7, 2003 7:33am Subject: Re: Mike V - honest opinion of the theme music, huh?? mvscreen >>> Hello Mike V: I know you were down on a lot of 'Search' but you didn't say whether you enjoyed the theme music or not?? A lot of comments from newbies to this chatsite have let off with Frontier’s theme music. -Geoff <<<< Thanks for the invitation to weigh in, Geoff, but I'm getting out of the opinion business. I'm going back to lurking. Oh, I may pop in from time to time to correct a factual error or offer an insider perspective based on my 13+ year career working in American network television. But opinions? I'm fresh out. - MV 2386 From: Jack Bagley Date: Sun Dec 7, 2003 2:17pm Subject: Geoff: SF Book jack_bagley Geoff ... Reading your posts regarding SEARCH, I didn't realize you had a part of a science fiction website! I'd love to have someone on your site review one of my novels. What would I need to do? I can either send a copy of the book itself or an e-book; which would be preferable and who would I send it to (if, indeed, anyone should be interested in reviewing it)? Best ... Jack __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree 2387 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Sun Dec 7, 2003 10:12am Subject: Re: Mike V - honest opinion of the theme music, huh?? worldsecanalyst I myself have always enjoyed the SEARCH maintitle. It was Frontiere's more creative pieces. 2388 From: "alabamathunder9000" Date: Mon Dec 8, 2003 7:00am Subject: movie of Probe alabamathund... there was a movie made with elki somers does anyone know how i may be able to get copy of it or the series? i know i spelled her name wrong she wont mind too much i hope. thanks for any ideas. 2389 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 9, 2003 7:21pm Subject: Re: Honeymoon Futures worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/5/2003 2:11:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, gfwillmetts@... writes: Hello David of Yorktown Pardon me for asking, especially as 'Odyssey 5' has yet if ever to be shown on terrestrial UK TV, but how do you equate it with 'The Invaders'?? I thought O5 was about 5 individuals being pushed back a few years before Earth's devise to prevent it happening?? That's how the series begins. As the O5 astronauts relive the past 5 years they are trying to find who or what was reponsible for earth's destruction. Like Invaders there is the pervasive undercurrent of machination. The unknown adversary uses terrestrial resources to achieve its ends. 2390 From: dghprobe3@... Date: Thu Dec 18, 2003 0:33am Subject: Hugh O'Brian in Troy, Alabama dghprobe3 http://www.troymessenger.com/articles/2003/12/13/news/story02.txt O'Brian tells grads to give back By cheyenne martin, The Messenger - When guest speaker Hugh O'Brian told the more than 400 Troy State University graduates to "try to find a way to put back in your community" during fall commencement on Friday, it wasn't just lip service. O'Brian spent 40 years on television, in movies and on Broadway, but he still found time to create the Hugh O'Brian Youth Foundation. The foundation, better known as HOBY, teaches more than 14,000 high school students each year about leadership and service at HOBY Leadership Seminars found in all 50 states. "I wish with all my heart your success," O'Brian told the graduates. "Make (your parents) proud by thinking about what you have to offer not only in the job market, but what you can give your community as well." Through personal stories, O'Brian shared his formula for a successful life, starting with the day he first met Nobel Peace Prize winner Albert Schweitzer in 1958 when the great humanitarian was a missionary in Africa. O'Brian said told the graduates they had a choice and the "freedom to choose to be whatever you want to be." But he emphasized that choosing money over happiness and things over people would not be a wise choice. "Find something you're happy in doing ... that is true success," O'Brian said. "If you can find that, my friend, then you have a truly noble profession." Paraphrasing Schweitzer, one of his personal heroes, O'Brian said the ability to think was the best thing the students would take with them from their educational experience. "The most important thing in education is to teach young people to think for themselves," he said. He told students to use that ability to develop a personal code of ethics and self-discipline. "The best things in life are not things," O'Brian advised. "Use things and love people." O'Brian told students to work hard in their careers, look for ways to be involved in the community and build on their education. "Each and every single one of you is an example, not of a mishap, but of a miracle waiting to happen," he said. 2391 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:57pm Subject: why are tv heroes getting younger?? gfwillmetts Hello David of Yorktown Re: O5 & Invaders. I would have thought 'V' was closer to 'The Invaders' than O5. Oh well, we'll never know the similarities any more but from what I read, I thought the Earth exploding was a human not alien thing. By the by, if you all want something to mull over, don't you think we're seeing far too many young adults taking on the problems of the world these days in SF TV series?? When you compare it to our days of yore, when all the heroes were at least in their 30s, it does make you wonder where all their demographics is leading to. In our day, who wanted to be the sidekick when you wanted to play Batman. Made the sidekick redundant & has now brought the age down. Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2392 From: Mike Valerio Date: Fri Dec 19, 2003 0:37am Subject: Re: why are tv heroes getting younger?? mvscreen Advertisers are willing to pay more and more often for spot time in TV shows that attract younger viewers. TV shows that star younger actors attract those younger viewers. It's as simple as that. As Deep Throat said: "Follow the money". - MV 2393 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:24pm Subject: Re: why are tv heroes getting younger?? worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/18/2003 7:28:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, gfwillmetts@... writes: Hello David of Yorktown Re: O5 & Invaders. I would have thought 'V' was closer to 'The Invaders' than O5. Oh well, we'll never know the similarities any more but from what I read, I thought the Earth exploding was a human not alien thing. Geoff, V began cribbing Clarke's Childhood's End. Suddenly, the Visitors were out of the sky presenting themselves as friends. As the plot thickens they don't prove to be friendly. In the Invaders the aliens surreptitiously emplace themselves within human society so as to foment disruption and destroy humanity as a consequence. The alien enemy is unknown to the majority of humans except for the few Believers. In O5 there is a small circle of Believers responsible for earth's destruction and they are trying to identify and stop this Destroyer By the by, if you all want something to mull over, don't you think we're seeing far too many young adults taking on the problems of the world these days in SF TV series?? When you compare it to our days of yore, when all the heroes were at least in their 30s, it does make you wonder where all their demographics is leading to. In our day, who wanted to be the sidekick when you wanted to play Batman. Made the sidekick redundant & has now brought the age down. Jake 2.0 is the latest example after having Buffy and Co. and the Smallville crowd. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2394 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:01am Subject: Re: why are tv heroes getting younger?? dghprobe3 --- In probe_control, "Geoff Willmetts" wrote: > ...if you all want something to mull over, don't you think we're > seeing far too many young adults taking on the problems of the world these days in SF TV series?? When you compare it to our days of yore, when all the heroes were at least in their 30s, it does make you wonder where all their demographics is leading to... Hi Geoff: Always good to hear from you. As I read your post above, what came to mind was Doogie Howser, MD. Some years ago, this wet behind the ears kid as superdoctor was a bit of an anomaly. Now we routinely see what amounts to youngsters single-handedly taking on literal armies, while catching multiple hand grenades in their mouths. We have been bombarded with so much impressive fake imagery along these lines that I find myself yawning where the moguls think I'm being "dazzled." But maybe that's just me. :-) 2395 From: "lazenbyland" Date: Fri Dec 19, 2003 0:10pm Subject: Never Jumped the Shark lazenbyland Search does get a mention on JumpingtheShark.com As you may expect, it never jumped and the entries about the show, though few in number, have nothing but praise for the show. 2396 From: Nic Olinsky Date: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04pm Subject: Re: Never Jumped the Shark tutru Unless things have changed there, I thought they listed Search as having jumped the shark when Lesile Stevens left the show. -- Nic Olinsky http://homepage.mac.com/nic/ Sunnyside, WA iChat/AIM: nic@... ICQ: 6718166 > From: lazenbyland > Reply-To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:10:35 +0000 > To: probe_control@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [probe_control] Never Jumped the Shark > > Search does get a mention on JumpingtheShark.com > > As you may expect, it never jumped and the entries about the show, > though few in number, have nothing but praise for the show. 2397 From: dmanmetz@... Date: Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:36pm Subject: Re: Never Jumped the Shark dmanmetz@... Most of those write ups are from people in the group (Probe_Control). I should know, I wrote the first entry back in 2001. Chris 2398 From: "Morningstar" Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:28am Subject: Re: why are tv heroes getting younger?? am2star I totally agree with you. Captain Kirk was "the youngest starship captain" and William Shatner was in his thirties. Steve Austin was played by "Lee Majors" who had been on "The Big Valley" for years. The same can be said for Bill Bixby in both "The Magician" and "The Inbredible Hulk." As an adult, I long for the roles that were present as a child, one that I could grow up to emulate. Now, if you are over twenty-five, you are too old to do anything and to be anything. --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts" wrote: > Hello David of Yorktown > > Re: O5 & Invaders. I would have thought 'V' was closer to 'The Invaders' > than O5. Oh well, we'll never know the similarities any more but from what I > read, I thought the Earth exploding was a human not alien thing. > > By the by, if you all want something to mull over, don't you think we're > seeing far too many young adults taking on the problems of the world these > days in SF TV series?? When you compare it to our days of yore, when all the > heroes were at least in their 30s, it does make you wonder where all their > demographics is leading to. > In our day, who wanted to be the sidekick when you wanted to play Batman. > Made the sidekick redundant & has now brought the age down. > > Gotta go > Geoff 2399 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:50pm Subject: equal demographics for 30-40 year olds!!! gfwillmetts Hello everyone Nice for so many of you folk to ponder my question yesterday. I'm using the question in my editorial next month. Hello Mike V Your comment doesn't really account for why younger audiences weren't targeted in a similar way when we were growing up. I can't recall a Bionic Man toy being advertised in the breaks of 'The Six Million Dollar Man' over here although the odd ad did appear in children's hour. I expect the same happened in the USA as well. I thought Deep Throat said, 'My, that's a big one.' :-) Hello David of Yorktown. Oh fur shure . Those flying saucers were the best rip of 'Childhood's End' in 'V'. Unlike Karellen & the Overlords, the Visitors were here only for snacks. It's a shame that no one has really thought to make a mini-series of Clarke's book. Then again, it could still happen. Years ago, I saw some design sketches Neal Adams drew for a film version so anything is possible. Re: Jake 2.0. Although I've only been able to read about it so far, I tend to think 'Automan' rather than Bionic Man where he's concerned. Hello Don Re: Doogie Howser. You'd have thought that he might have been smart but emotionally shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near patients. He could have become a nuclear physicist instead. By the by, is the chap who player Howser's pal still around. He seems to have bitten the dust after the series. Then again, so have the folk from 'Third Rock From The Sun'. I agree with you. US TV is presenting such a falsehood of achievement to youngsters that those who can't distinguish between fantasy & reality that it's inevitable that some are going to feel like under-achievers & do something rather drastic about it. Now that is going to be frightening in the gun nation. Hello Morningstar I think what needs to be considered is why people in their 30s aren't being seen as a useful demographic to sell adverts to. Do you folk stop taking an interest in TV by that age?? I know some of you folk out there are involved in TV production. It might be about time some thought was given in this direction & see if any company bites. Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2400 From: shemp47@... Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:42pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 716 shemp472000 I remember two future "Charlie's Angels" on this show. Jaclyn Smith had a small part in the pilot episode and Cheryl Ladd played the girlfriend of one of the guys in one episode. Were there any other future stars on the show? 2401 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:07pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 716 worldsecanalyst Offline Send Email Mary Fran (Joanna in Newhart) guested in an episode too. 2402 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:13am Subject: SEARCH regulars & guest stars dghprobe3 http://tvparty.com/recsearch.html For newcomers, or for those who missed my TV Party SEARCH article, I mentioned these actors and actresses, along with Jaclyn Smith and Cheryl (Stoppelmoor) Ladd: "Dabney Coleman, A Martinez, Edward Mulhare, Mary Frann, James B. Sikking, Joanna Cameron, Michael Conrad, William Smith and many others made guest appearances on Search and became more famous later in their careers..." I'm sure there are others who can be added to the list. By the way, Cheryl Ladd played Miss Amy Love in a number of episodes as a replacement for Ms. Keach (Ginny Golden). Miss Love wasn't necessarily anyone's girlfriend in SEARCH, but she clearly enjoyed watching Lockwood on the Probe screen in "Flight to Nowhere." --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, shemp47@w... wrote: > I remember two future "Charlie's Angels" on this show. Jaclyn Smith had a small part in the pilot episode and Cheryl Ladd played the girlfriend of one of the guys in one episode. Were there any other future stars on the show? 2403 From: "Robert J. Sawyer" Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:22am Subject: Re: SEARCH regulars & guest stars robertjsawyer Indeed, it's my understanding that Jaclyn Smith's role in the pilot film PROBE was her very first acting job. Robert J. Sawyer http://www.sfwriter.com 2404 From: "Robert J. Sawyer" Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:24am Subject: Re: Never Jumped the Shark robertjsawyer For me, SEARCH jumped the shark when they turned on the bright lights in Probe Control after episode 13. I still liked it, but a large part of the "cool" factor was gone for me. Robert J. Sawyer http://www.sfwriter.com 2405 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:25pm Subject: Re: Re: SEARCH regulars & guest stars worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/21/2003 10:22:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, sawyer@... writes: Indeed, it's my understanding that Jaclyn Smith's role in the pilot film PROBE was her very first acting job. Actually, it goes a bit further back. There was a season one episode of Partridge Family. Recently, I've learned that she could have gotten a part on Dark Shadows replacing Alexandra Moltke as Vicki, but she refused it. 2406 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:26pm Subject: Re: Re: Never Jumped the Shark worldsecanalyst That's when they began altering its format as a crime drama. 2407 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:29pm Subject: Re: equal demographics for 30-40 year olds!!! worldsecanalyst In a message dated 12/20/2003 6:52:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, gfwillmetts@... writes: It's a shame that no one has really thought to make a mini-series of Clarke's book. Then again, it could still happen. Years ago, I saw some design sketches Neal Adams drew for a film version so anything is possible. There were rumors of Spielberg adapting Childhood's End, but it ended with that. I think Spielberg wanted Clarke in the States to work the production; only, Clarke is not one to leave Sri Lanke. 2408 From: "mvscreen" Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:56pm Subject: World Securities location? mvscreen Has anyone definitively identified exactly which building in Los Angeles was used for the exteriors of SEARCH's World Securities headquarters? Based on just the first four or five episodes that I've seen recently, I think I have a pretty good guess...unless, of course, the mystery's already been solved. Does anyone know? - Mike Valerio 2409 From: "mvscreen" Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:59pm Subject: World Securities location? mvscreen Has anyone definitively identified exactly which building in Los Angeles was used for the exteriors of SEARCH's World Securities headquarters? Based on just the first four or five episodes that I've seen recently, I think I have a pretty good guess...unless, of course, the mystery's already been solved. Does anyone know? - Mike Valerio 2410 From: Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:51pm Subject: World Securities location? probecontrol Mike Valerio asks: >... Has anyone definitively identified exactly which building in Los Angeles was used for the exteriors of SEARCH's World Securities headquarters? ---------------------- I don't recall that we've pinpointed it, have we? Don? ---------------------- >... Based on just the first four or five episodes that I've seen recently, I think I have a pretty good guess...unless, of course, the mystery's already been solved. ---------------------- I'd like to hear your guess. Interesting that you should mention that, now. I watched the PROBE pilot over the weekend with a friend from Memphis (he's very knowledgable about the TV and movie business, and remarked that he thought that the pilot was "very well produced."), and I wondered about that 'World Securities exterior' question to myself. Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2411 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:04pm Subject: Re: World Securities location? worldsecanalyst In real life it was probably an LA based office building. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2412 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:38am Subject: Re: World Securities location? dghprobe3 Hi: Actually there were two different buildings used for World Securities Corp. One appeared in the PROBE pilot, which was a glass building with ridges; the other was a flat glass building used for the series episodes. So far no one has positively identified either building, but the ridged building used in the pilot also showed up later in "Moment of Madness" as Peter O'Toole's building exterior. It is also interesting to watch episodes of "Name of the Game" and see the establishing shots of the glass building used for Howard Publications. The angle and upward pan is very similar to the building establishing shot used later in the SEARCH series. The black sign with light lettering for World Securities Corp. which was used in the pilot, was also used in the series, but it had a different frame surrounding it. I'm also sure these buildings have been used in the past on other shows & movies. If Mike can identify either building, that would be great. List members who live in the area could send in scanned photos showing how the buildings appear today. --------------------------------- --- In probe_control, Mike Valerio asks: > >... Has anyone definitively identified exactly which > building in Los Angeles was used for the exteriors of > SEARCH's World Securities headquarters? > ---------------------- Jim's reply: > I don't recall that we've pinpointed it, have we? Don? > ---------------------- > >... Based on just the first four or five episodes that I've > seen recently, I think I have a pretty good guess...unless, > of course, the mystery's already been solved... 2413 From: "bfiler2002000" Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:10am Subject: Re: World Securities Headquarters bfiler2002000 I used to know what the building was, but now I am no longer sure. I was trying to place it when I was watching PROBE recently. Don't quote me, but I THINK it's either MCA Headquarters in Los Angeles or (most probably seeing as SEARCH was a WB production) Warner Bros. L.A. Corporate headquarters. Whichever building it is was known in the "Biz" as Black Rock during the '70's and early '80's, not only because of its appearance but because of the nefarious decisions known or presumed to have been made there, though I'm sure any given corporate headquarters has an equal if not greater number of nefarious decisions being made inside... 2414 From: "Jim Alexander" Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:19am Subject: Re: World Securities Headquarters probecontrol > I used to know what the building was, but now I am no longer sure. > I was trying to place it when I was watching PROBE recently. Don't > quote me, but I THINK it's either MCA Headquarters in Los Angeles > or (most probably seeing as SEARCH was a WB production) Warner Bros. > L.A. Corporate headquarters. Whichever building it is was known in > the "Biz" as Black Rock during the '70's and early '80's, not only > because of its appearance but because of the nefarious decisions > known or presumed to have been made there, though I'm sure any given > corporate headquarters has an equal if not greater number of > nefarious decisions being made inside... -------------------------------------- Hmmmmmmmm. I'm probably mistaken... but I thought I remembered that the 'Black Rock' reference was to the CBS Network building. Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2415 From: Mike Valerio Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:32am Subject: Re: Re: World Securities Headquarters mvscreen "Black Rock" refers to the CBS building in mid-town Manhattan. The MCA/Universal Building (on the Universal lot) has been referred to as "The Black Tower", or, simply "The Tower". Neither of these building were the World Securities HQ in either the pilot or the series. I have more research to do, but I believe I am closing in on the identity of the series building. More to come as time permits. - MV 2416 From: bob.greenberger@... Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:32pm Subject: Re: Re: World Securities Headquarters bobgrnbrgr Absolutely right. MCA/Universal's gleaming black tower was used for Glen Howard's fictional headquarters. The building is at the base of the hill leading up to Universal Studios. -- Bob > I used to know what the building was, but now I am no longer sure. > I was trying to place it when I was watching PROBE recently. Don't > quote me, but I THINK it's either MCA Headquarters in Los Angeles > or (most probably seeing as SEARCH was a WB production) Warner Bros. > L.A. Corporate headquarters. Whichever building it is was known in > the "Biz" as Black Rock during the '70's and early '80's, not only > because of its appearance but because of the nefarious decisions > known or presumed to have been made there, though I'm sure any given > corporate headquarters has an equal if not greater number of > nefarious decisions being made inside... 2417 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:19pm Subject: Other Warner exterior sets dghprobe3 http://wbsf.warnerbros.com/soundstages/exteriorsets.html The link above relating to Warner Bros. exterior sets has been posted previously on this list, but there are some updates to the page. Some items of note: The "New York Street" was used in "The Bullet." The second photo in the "New York Street" section shows the apparent movie theatre and marquee which doubled as the train station where Lockwood and Bremer were shot with the toxic bullets. You can click on the smaller pic to see a larger pic which gives a great deal more detail. Scroll farther down and you get the "Embassy Courtyard" exterior, which was used as Harbison's headquarters in "The Packagers" and for Vollmer's bank in "Numbered for Death." Farther down is "Blondie Street (at the Ranch)," which is the neighborhood Lockwood drove through in "Countdown to Panic." Anne Francis' "Parker house" was also the Kravitz house on Morning Glory Circle in "Bewitched," as well as The Partridge Family, and the neighborhood used in "Lethal Weapon," etc. Much more on this neighborhood at http://www.1164.com - this site has been mentioned here previously also, but the owner has included many new photos and updates. 2418 From: "Geoff Willmetts" Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:50pm Subject: Re: World Securities location? what about the hotel? gfwillmetts Hello everyone Hello Rob Sawyer Loved you 'Illegal Alien' book by the way. When I first saw 'Search' in my early teens sans the pilot, my initial impression was that Cameron's team were actually inside the scanner. How's that for an end of the year confession?? Hello David of Yorktown Re: Childhood's End. Considering a later chunk of the book was on an island looking remarkably like Sri Lanka, they could have tried filming nearer to Clarke. If ever there was a Clarke book that needed being made into a film, this one really is it & Karellen is way within possibility these days. Hello Mike V Apart from the World Securities building, I'd love to know where that hotel in the end of the Probe pilot was. I found a possible candidate wondering through an LA hotel guide on the Net a couple years back but it would still need a physical check for that stairway & wine cellar. Gotta go Geoff ********* GF Willmetts **************************** Commissioning Editor: http://www.sfcrowsnest.com or http://www.computercrowsnestbooks.com THE SCIENCE FICTION AND FANTASY MAGAZINE THE E-BOOK PUBLISHER THAT TRIES HARDER WE DON’T CHOOSE OUR RANK POSITIONS, OTHERS PUT US THERE:- AOL ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://search.aol.com/aolcom/browse?id=906&source=subcats Yahoo ranks SFcrowsnest #4 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ DMOZ ranks SFcrowsnest #1 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://dmoz.org/Arts/Literature/Genres/Science_Fiction/ Google PageRanks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Genres/Science_Fiction_and_Fantasy/ Alexa ranks SFcrowsnest #2 most popular SFF site on the Internet http://www.alexa.com/browse/general?catid=56670&mode=general *************************************************** 2419 From: "Robert J. Sawyer" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:39am Subject: Re: World Securities location? what about the hotel? robertjsawyer --- In probe_control@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Willmetts" wrote: > Hello everyone > > Hello Rob Sawyer > Loved you 'Illegal Alien' book by the way. Thank you. I actually discuss how SEARCH influenced me in becoming a professional writer in an autobiographical essay I did for Gale Research's CONTEMPORARY AUTHORS. The essay is also on my website: http://www.sfwriter.com/gale.htm (just search on "Search," so to speak). Robert J. Sawyer http://www.sfwriter.com 2420 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:15am Subject: More on Universal's 'Black Tower' dghprobe3 http://www.gmrnet.com/graphics/utower75.jpg Above links to a photo of Universal's famed "Black Tower," which was also used as Howard Publications' building in "Name of the Game," among others. The building was also featured in the first regular "Columbo" episode, "Murder by the Book," which was directed by Steven Spielberg. http://www.gmrnet.com/studio.html Article text includes the address of the "Black Tower": 3900 Lankershim Blvd., Universal City, CA. --- In probe_control, bob.greenberger@a... wrote: > Absolutely right. MCA/Universal's gleaming black tower was used for Glen Howard's fictional headquarters. The building is at the base of the hill leading up to Universal Studios. 2421 From: "dghprobe3" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:50am Subject: Los Angeles webcam & photo links dghprobe3 http://www.electricearl.com/ This may or may not help, but above links to a webpage that has MANY different webcam and tour images available of Los Angeles, including skyline shots and pictures of famous buildings. Maybe a shot of either building used for World Securities can be found here, as well as many of the other areas used for location shooting in SEARCH, such as the lush hotel seen in the pilot. 2422 From: "jack_bagley" Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:37pm Subject: Burgess Meredith Autobiography jack_bagley I don't know if I have mentioned this here or not, but I've come into possession of a copy of "So Far, So Good," Burgess Meredith's autobiography, through eBay. This particular copy is autographed and was from the estate of Dorothy Hart, to whom it is made out. There's a little doodle, I would imagine of Mr. Meredith, on the inscription. I can scan the inscription and signature and upload it if there's any interest. It's a good book, but alas, there's no mention whatsoever of SEARCH. As someone has pointed out, Mr. Meredith primarily "phoned in" his performance as Cameron, though no one watching could tell. End run ... Jack 2423 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:49pm Subject: Burgess Meredith Autobio worldsecanalyst I read of a posting on a Burgess Meredith autobiography. It's a pity he didn't ever know of a SEARCH following. I suspect there are at least two other series he wouldn't care to remember though: The Return of Captain Nemo (cheesy Irwin Allen Sci/Fantasy series) and Gloria (lame All in the Family spinoff). 2424 From: Lady Talara Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 0:32pm Subject: I'm new and wanted to say hello. ladytalara I heard about you all from a member of the time tunnel group. Sorry can't remember who it was. I so remember SEARCH. I was lucky enough to get a very clean copy of the pilot of tape at a Tomecon convention many yrs. back. Bought it from a vander called Space Dabris. Used to find lots of treasures on his table. I saw in the files someone made a vcd. Goodness it looked great. I have wanted for yrs to find the eps on tape. If some staion would play them again I'd tape them. I was reading a little throught the message archkives that Lincoin Emterprises used to sell the scripys? I don't rememer seeing a decent ep gui in the files. Or did I gloss over it.? And I loved hearing the theme again. It's been so long. I am so happy there is a group for the series. Warms my 43 yr. oldf heart to no end. And gain. glad to meet you all. Lady Talara aka Agent April Dancer {GFU} aka Lady Cathryn Collins 2425 From: Michael Hendry Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:54pm Subject: Re: I'm new and wanted to say hello. mvhendry >>I am so happy there is a group for the series. Warms my 43 yr. oldf heart to no end. << Welcome! Yes, there were some interesting discussions lately about Search on the Time Tunnel list. Finding this group warmed my 44 yo heart, too! I'm guessing, that since search is hardly ever repeated (if at all) there is a small window of age groups that remember the show. I had completely forgotten about it after its first run until I found the theme on a tv themes website this past year. Even then, it took some doing to find more information on the show and this group (searching for "search" was a challenge). Hope you enjoy! Mike 2426 From: Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 4:10pm Subject: Welcome, Cathryn probecontrol Welcome to the list, Lady Talara/Agent April Dancer/Lady Cathryn Collins! We're pleased to have you. P.S. I'm a big U.N.C.L.E. fan, too! Jim Alexander probecontrol@... 2427 From: yorktowncmdr@... Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:12pm Subject: Re: Welcome, Cathryn worldsecanalyst Welcome to Probe_Control, Cathryn. It is always good to see new members. David WorldSecAnalyst [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2428 From: Lady Talara Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:55am Subject: Thank you all. ladytalara Dear friends. Michael, Jim, David. Gentalmen I thank you for your lovely welcomes. I am very touched. Thank you. Lady Cathryn.. 2429 From: "galacticprobe" Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:27pm Subject: Search props in other shows galacticprobe Greetings, All, I know we all love when someone lets us know a "Search" prop has been spotted in other TV/movie productions (such as a scanner used in a "Canon" episode, or the Probe Control viewer in that movie whose title escapes me at the moment). Well, I spotted another while researching (of all things) Cylon raider filming miniatures so I could beter detail my old Monogram model while restoring it. One web site with great pics of a filming mini has several pages on it covering other productions from the golden age(?) of TV & film. One of these pages provides info on a short-lived TV series called "The Fantastic Journey" that was a sort of mix between "Time Tunnel", "Sliders", & "Quantum Leap". Here's the address of that page. Take a look at the very first pic on the page & see if anyone recognizes the piece of equipment between the two men talking. http://www.cylon.org/tv/fj-01.html I've already e-mailed the people who manage the site to let them know about it so they could add that bit of trivia to their inside info on the series. (They provide some great trivia & details on all the shows they cover.) I even gave them the Probe Control site address in case they wanted to provide a link for anyone wanting more info after reading the details. So far no one's replied & I haven't seen anything added to the above site. Anyway, the main page (http://www.cylon.org) gives access to many of the old shows most of us will remember (even those we've forgotten about but will say 'Oh yeah, I remember that one!'). So have a look around when you're there. (How many of us remember "The Starlost"?) End Run, Dino 2430 From: "Jim Alexander" Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:12pm Subject: Search props in Fantastic Journey probecontrol WELL DONE, Dino! Nice detective work, GalacticProbe! ;) Jim Alexander probecontrol@... ----------------------------- >... Take a look at the very first pic on the page & see if anyone recognizes the piece of equipment between > the two men talking. http://www.cylon.org/tv/fj-01.html