Judy
Burns chats about SEARCH
Part 1
by Don Harden
On February 18, 2004, I was invited to take part in a portion of Judy Burns' online scriptwriting class. This particular session was described to me as a "freebie," mainly for her students to test the new server they are using and see how many could join the chat room without losing stability. I recently sent an email to Judy mentioning that we had a better copy of her Search episode "The Bullet." She replied by asking me to join in the chat session and pose any Search questions I had in that forum.
As it turned out, a few of her students had occasional questions and comments. The first 90 minutes of the session was mainly Judy discussing current projects with her students and answering their questions about various writing courses. Then Judy was ready to discuss what she could about Search. She had a number of things to say as to how her script of "The Bullet" developed, first as a gimmick, then to the final script. Plus a few memories about "Countdown to Panic." I put in boldface type areas of particular interest, some of which I would like to ask further about.I have been invited to take part in at least one more "freebie" session with Judy's class on March 3rd. So any follow-up questions can be taken up at that time. If any questions for Judy occur to any Yahoo! Search list members, please forward them to the list and I can include them in the upcoming session.
<Chat transcript picks up where the SEARCH discussion began.>
Judy says, "Okay, so, Don... about Search. I was called into Search, as you know... by Bob Justman. I had been "discovered" by Bob."
Don said, "Yes."
Judy says, "And when he went over to produce that show, he called me up and I joined him... I think at Warners..."
Don said, "Leslie Stevens was exec producer."
Judy says, "I'm not sure... but we shot the second show on the Warners/Columbia ranch. I only met Leslie Stevens in passing."
Megan_Mirabel says, ":o)"
Don said, "There is a website devoted to the Ranch, lots of photos. www.1164.com"
Judy said, "Anyway, they asked me if I wanted to try to pitch one. And I think the one I pitched was, perhaps... "The Bullet"..." You'll have to tell me."
Don said, "Yes, The Bullet was first. I posted a link to the script earlier. www.probecontrol.com/Scripts/Bullet.txt"
Judy says, "Candidly, as I've told you, I don't remember much about the development of that script. It was about my fourth script to actually have my name on it."
Don said, "People still enjoy your episodes."
Judy said, "And I think it was a blur. LOL. Well, one of the good things was Tony Singer."
Don said, "We get emails from all over the world about that show."
Judy says, "He was a consumate pro."
Don said, "Tony Spinner?"
Judy says, "Yeah, I think it was Tony. :) He was the story editor. Tall, sharp, addicted I think... to horses."
Don said, "It's a long story, but Leslie Stevens left, and Tony moved up to producer."
Judy says, "And he knew how to tell a story. Well, Tony was the story editor when I got there."
Don said, "Search was never rerun in the US. Only overseas."
Judy says, "And although Bob Justman started the process, Tony was the one I reported to. Tell me again, was this the one where they did the slide for life? I think so... but God... it is a blur."
Don said, "The Bullet was the slide for life episode."
Judy says, "Okay... so my memory is hanging in there."
Don said, "I sent you a tape awhile back, but it was a few years ago.
Judy said, "The thing they liked was the sticker. Believe it or not. I watched it a long time ago... blurs... blurs..."
Don said, "The sticker on the suitcase. Very clever. Probe Control played the tape back and got the formula."
Judy says, "I went into this show and said... what if somebody had something they wanted to smuggle over the wall. And they didn't know how to get it out."
Don said, "That was a metaphor for the Berlin Wall?"
Judy says, "Yes. It was the old days... when the wall meant something."
Megan_Mirabel says, "pardon me, lisa goldkuhl's coming to class in a minute."
Judy says, "The idea was... something like Charade."
Judy says, "great."
Judy says, "In Charade, they hide the money in the stamp."
Don said, "There was an old film noir called DOA where the hero is slowly dying during the movie.
Judy said, "I didn't want to hide money... I wanted to hide a formula. Before DOA... there was the stamp. :) I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. I just had a gimmick."
Don said, "DOA reminded me of Lockwood's situation."
Judy says, "I had seen a lot of travel stickers on old suitcases."
Don said, "Mike Okuda is a BIG fan of Search, by the way."
Judy says, ":)"
Don said, "Mike is art director for all the new Star Trek series."
Judy says, "I know."
Judy says, "I thought that it was a good show."
Don said, "It was too much ahead of its time."
Judy said, "Anyway, those stickers are so flashy..."
*** Lisa_Goldkuhl has entered the room
Judy says, "that I thought what if we took an actual atomic "formula"... what would it look like if you could string it out for a chemist... and miniaturize it. And make it the decoration around the stamp."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "Once there was a stamp... we needed a reason for it. And that meant a scientist in trouble somewhere... with a formula that he needed to get out... and baddies who wanted to use it for "evil." :)
Don said, "When the scientist was dying, he said, "the border..." which threw everyone off. They thought a country border at first."
Judy says, "Right..."
*** Nicci_ has left the room
Judy says, "The play on words was intentional. Because we could pun with it. I had never seen Dead on Arrival. I was not a very good student of film those days."
Megan_Mirabel says, "that's what ya call imagination!"
Don said, "You didn't visit the Search sets except for the slide for life and Columbia Ranch scenes?"
Judy says, "And so when they heard about the sticker, they said... we could play Dead on Arrival... DOA."
Judy says, "No, Don... I didn't."
Judy says, "They they proceeded to tell me about it."
Don said, "You said Dana Wynter was there for some of the filming? How did that come about?
Judy says, "Right. Once we got a story, the script wrote itself... we needed a woman... and they got Dana Wynter. I loved her."
Don said, "Dana wasn't in the episode."
Judy said, "she played in a series called "The Man who never was."
Judy said "OK. I think she was. I met her in makeup."
Don said, "Anyway, we found a better copy of The Bullet. The first one I sent was kinda black & white."
Judy says, "And I also met Connie Stevens."
Don said, "On the Search set? Connie Stevens?"
Judy says, "And a man... whose name is out of my head... but he was big..."
Judy says, "who else played in those two shows?"
Don said, "Malachi Throne was the Colonel who was after Hugh O'Brian's character."
Judy says, "Think about the other episode. Who was in it?"
Don said, "Ina Balin was in The Bullet."
Judy says, "Panic in the Streets."
Don said, "The other episode Countdown to Panic."
Judy says, "I know Ina Balin. Okay... who was in it?"
Don said, "Howard Duff, Robert Webber... Anne Francis was there."
Judy says, "Robert Webber."
Don said, "Jack Ging was there too."
Judy says, "And Howard Duff... met them. So I guess I was on both sets. :)"
Don said, "Very good cast in both episodes."
Judy says, "Point is... whether Dana Wynter was in one or not... I met her on the set. She was being made up for something."
Don said, "I see. I hope this is interesting to the other chatters. :)"
Judy says, "Anyway... the slide for life. I read somewhere about a guy who had gotten over the wall by a slide for life. I don't know how he arranged it. But he did..."
Don said, "Lockwood had a utility belt."
Judy says, "and I was looking for a way to do that on this show. Yes, it worked out that he had his "batman" belt."
Judy says, "And so we had what we needed to get him and the girl over the wall."
Don said, "But with a James Bond flair to it. :)"
Anna_Pernicci says, "When was the show made?"
Don said, "1972-73 NBC. It never reran in the US, only overseas. Our episode tapes are from Australia."
Judy says, "Hugh O'Brien was a good strong guy... And he wanted to do the slide himself. I don't think they let him do it. :) I was there when they shot it."
Don said, "One of our members met Hugh last year at a HOBY event. He said he almost didn't do the series."
Anna_Pernicci says, "I haven't seen it in the UK, do you know if it's had a run here?"
Judy says, "and a man actually played the woman's role... A small woman."
Don said, "Search ran in the UK as "Search Control. On the BBC."
Judy says, "Anyone who must leave, don't be shy. I just thought I'd give Don what he wanted... as long as we were here."
Maria_Crecenzio says, "was Tony Franciosa in that show?? I don't know I'm thinking I've seen some episodes abroad."
Judy says, "Anyway, Don, it took them all day to set up that shot. Yes, Tony Franciosa."
Don said, "Yes, Franciosa was there too."
Megan_Mirabel says, "i should've been watching that. maybe i was watching family affair, or the outer limits :)"
Don said, "And Burgess Meredith & Doug McClure."
Judy says, "I am not sure if he was in my second one... or if it was only with O'Brien."
Don said, "Leslie Stevens produced the original Outer Limits. Both your scripts were O'Brian eps."
RAY_WINTER says, "Sorry, but I have to leave for the night now. Bye."
Judy says, "I had met Burgess Meredith years before when I was in college. Bye, Ray. Thanks for helping us out."
Judy said, "I thought the second one was with O'Brien also. It was his friend who had the "disease", I think."
Don said, "Burgess knew Leslie Stevens when he was a teenager. Leslie Stevens worked with Orson Welles' Mercury Theatre as a teen and Burgess was one of the players."
Judy said, "LOL. Shows you how people get around in Hollywood."
Don said, "Ed Nelson was the diver with the depth disease."
Judy said, "I met Ed Nelson."
Don said, "Great character actor. Anne Francis was his wife. On the show."
Judy said, "Right... met her too."
Don said, "The house was in Columbia Ranch. Anne Francis' house."
Judy says, "Yes, we all sat on the grass there one day and talked."
Megan_Mirabel says, "what time was search on?"
Judy says, "Boy, I don't know, Megan."
Don said, "Wed. nites 10 pm."
Judy said, "I did the two shows... and then went on, I think... to Ironside. And that was it."
Don said, "The neighborhood with Anne Francis' house was the same one used in Bewitched."
Judy said, "I think the street where they did the slide for life was just down the way from the high noon street."
Don said, "Wasn't Fred Freiburger connected to Ironside?"
Judy says, "No. Not when I was there. Maybe later. But I can't remember the story editor I worked with."
Don said, "He wrote a script, and one of the lines was the IDIC principle from Trek."
Judy says, "LOL. Actually, Fred worked for me on a show called American Girls. It is strange how you can give a man who gave you a job... a job later."
Don said, "Fred Freiburger had Bo Hopkins give the definition of IDIC on an Ironside episode. Wild, huh?
Judy says, "LOL."
Megan_Mirabel says, "i bet i saw it, just need to see an episode. maybe i watched outer limits then switched to ironside :)"
KWOZ says, "IDIC?"
Don said, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations..."
Don said, "Wish I had that on tape, but no."
Judy says, "Anyway... ask me a question or two. Because I only watched the slide... and met folks as they blew up some cars, etc. And met some actors and hung out. I remember we went to a bridge for something in one of them. Location shot. But I don't remember what it was for."
Don said, "When I first contacted you about Search, I had not sent any tapes to you yet. The bridge was night time in Countdown to Panic."
Judy says, "Right..."
Don said, "Ed Nelson's character fell off the bridge."
Judy says, "Don, I looked at the tapes as I did something else, candidly."
Don said, "That's okay. Was hoping it would jar a memory or two. :)"
Judy says, "I gotta tell you, Search was fun... but it was a job. Just a job. :) It was fun because I liked the production staff."
Don said, "I'm delighted to be able to ask questions about it."
Judy says, "And I got a chance to meet some nice folks. I really liked Webber and Ed Nelson."
Don said, "So many people are gone now, Leslie Stevens, Burgess, Doug McClure, etc."
Judy says, "Spent a day with them. Just hanging out. Yep. It was a long time ago."
Don said, "Robert Webber passed on a few years ago. Sad to say, he was another great character actor."
Judy says, "I was still about twenty five or so when I did it. Not much on my mind :) total airhead."
Don said, "We gotta start somewhere. :)"
Anna_Pernicci says, "Are nice folks rare in this indusrty Judy?"
Judy says, "There are a lot of nice folks. There are a lotta hatchet types. I got a lot of back pats..."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "Cant imagine that you were an airhead, Judy."
Judy says, "I got a lot of scars on my back. You know, Maralyn, it was a serious business... but I didn't know that it was."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "ah"
Judy says, "Those days it was fun."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "grace."
Don said, "We understand Bob Justman left Search about half way through the series. Tony Spinner then moved up and became producer."
Judy says, "Bob went to MGM, I think... to do "Then Came Bronson."
Don said, "That was 1969, after Trek. :)"
Judy said, "Well, then, maybe it was before Search... see how it bleeds together. I just know he did Bronson around the same time."
Don said, "Justman and Herb Solow did the book Inside Star Trek."
Judy says, "I know."
Don said, "They also did a companion video with the book."
Judy says, "I read it before Bob published it."
Don said, "The video shows the studio buildings and how close together everything was."
Judy says, "He's been a guest to my classes at UCLA."
Don said, "Ah, very nice. I'm sure he was honored."
Judy says, "No, I was honoured. :)" I will always owe it all to Bob :) And Freddy. :)"
---
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "What was the angle of search"
Judy says, "Search was like Man From Uncle. It had two or three agents..."
Don said, "Search was more into the surveillance & computer angle."
Judy says, "and the Uncle was Burgess Meredith."
Don said, "The agents had camera & audio implants for two way communication."
Judy says, "They "kept in touch" with their operatives..."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "very high tech for time?"
Don said, "more at probecontrol.com"
Judy says, "And could help them from afar. :) Yes... it was high tech..."
Don said, "Very ahead of its time for 1972."
Judy says, "heading toward Six Million Dollar Man time."
Don said, "Aspects of it are still high tech even for today. The telemetry area especially."
Judy says, "Anyway... enough of that. That's it for me."
Megan_Mirabel says, "BRONSON? only charles bronson comes to my mind."
Don said, "Then Came Bronson with Michael Parks. 1969 on NBC."
Judy says, "Right."
Don said, "Sort of The Fugitive except the guy is on a motorcycle."
Judy says, "Okay, folks... does anyone have anything they really are dying to discuss? Because I'm going to call it a night shortly."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "any good movies you've seen?"
Don said, "Thanks Judy for the discussion. :)"
----
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "don where are you from."
Don said, "Atlanta, GA."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "i mean, with this tv stuff."
Don said, "I met Judy through eBay, come to think of it. I don't know if Judy remembers, though."
Maralyn_Lois_Polak says, "are you studying screenwriting, don?"
Don said, "No, but I am fascinated. Back in 2000, Judy was selling something on eBay. I sent an email and we started a small correspondence about Search."
---
Don said, "I was honored to take part, Judy."
Judy says, "Thanks, Don. Wish I could dredge things up for you. but I wasn't on staff."
Don said, "I see. I did have a few other questions, but they could wait for another time."
Judy says, "Just ask them. I don't know if I know them. But ask now... so we've done it."
---
Don said, "You worked with Salvage 1? That had Andy Griffith as the junk dealer who went on the moon."
Judy says, "What's that got to do with Search? LOL. I wrote a show for Harve. Don't know what else to tell you."
Don said, "The guy who was Kuroda in Search was in the episode you wrote."
Judy says, "Yes. Harve was the same producer. Of both shows. He liked him. John Fujioka."
Don said, "Someone made a website about Salvage 1 and referred to your episode."
Judy said, "LOL. I don't remember it that much."
Don said, "Byron Chung was Kuroda."
Judy said, "Shangra la Lil. Okay. Then... see... I didn't even think about that show. I was working on American Girls."
Don said, "I have the link. www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9782/salepisode.html"
Judy says, ":)"
Don said, "The webmaster refers to the end of your episode. The Japanese soldier wanted to know who won the war. Harry didn't have the heart to tell him who really won so..."
Judy said, "Same story as Six Million Dollar Man."
Don said, "He said the Japanese won."
Judy says, "Give or take."
Don said, "And as proof he showed him his watch."
Judy says, "LOL."
Don said, "See, made in Japan."
Judy says, "Right."
Don said, "I thought you'd get a kick out of that. :) Actually, we "met" on eBay back in 2000. You were trying to sell a 16mm film."
Judy says, "Right... the tape. the film. what other questions, though."
Don said, "I was wondering if that led to anything?"
Judy said, "Nope, decided not to sell it after talking to you."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "I'm probably going to just give it to UCLA archive. So it goes to somebody who wants it. I just have it on a shelf. :)
Don said, "One of our last emails, we discussed the Enterprise series and their use of your Tholians. Was there any upshot to that?"
Judy says, "I haven't kept up with Enterprise. So I don't know."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "I haven't watched it since that episode. I don't know if they've been back or not. I assume I'll hear about it one of these days. And then decide. I don't much like Enterprise. I like Angel and Smallville. :)"
Don said, "We've been trying to get one of the cable outlets to run Search, but no luck so far."
Judy says, "I doubt it will happen. It's sooo long ago."
Don said, "We don't know why, many one season shows are worldwide cult shows."
Judy says, "I know... but this country is hard on old shows."
Don said, "Time Tunnel was one season and it runs all the time."
Judy says, "Especially when it doesn't have enough episodes."
Don said, "True. But we keep trying. The Search pilot still shows up in the US once in awhile."
Judy says, "I've never seen it on television. If the pilot was two hours... it could."
Don said, "Oh, I think you had a Hitchcockian reference in one of your Search episodes."
Judy says, "Boy, Don... it's possible."
Don said, "At the beginning of Countdown to Panic, we see the hospital, the stretcher going down the hall."
Judy says, "I like Hitchcock."
Don said, "The nurse on the intercom says, "Dr. Burns, calling Dr. Burns..."
Judy says, "That was the show doing its thing. :) Not me. They put that in. LOL. A good joke."
Don said, "Later in the episode, we hear "Dr. Stevens," which was probably for Leslie Stevens."
Judy says, "Yes... they were doing their thing in sound."
Don said, "We catch those kind of things. We still get emails about Search, a lot from overseas."
Judy says, "Right. I suspect you should write a book about it. :)"
Don said, "They changed the Probe Control sets between your two episodes. The Bullet had the dark set, Countdown had the bright white set."
Judy says, "I believe you."
Don said, "Why the change? Did you notice? Mike Okuda speculated the brighter set was easier to film."
Judy says, "I probably noticed, but if it made a difference in the script. then they may have told me they had more capability. Other than that, I don't know."
Don said, "OK."
Judy says, "You have to realize I had only one staff job. Mission. I was still just a freelancer."
---
Judy says, "And I was "invited" to shooting as a courtesy."
Judy says, "I was perhaps in the office five or six times... to talk script."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "And I was on the set once for each show. And I didn't know any scuttlebutt. It really was a job..."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "and most of it was done at home at the typewriter. I spent perhaps three hours with Tony. And a couple with Bob. And perhaps a couple with the stunt guy the day they shot the slide. Other than that, I wasn't on the set."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "I didn't go to anything except location parts of the shoot. one day each. It was different those days. Writers were NOT included in it. They had no power at all, unless they were on staff."
Don said, "I see."
Judy says, "So we just went in... and pitched... and made revisions. And went away. Had a perrier on the way, sometimes. :) It's different when you are on staff. You are there all the time. But a freelancer... is just that. A person who gives over the script... and doesn't even get to know the second AD. :)"
Judy says, "Wish you could jog something... but it just isn't there to jog, unfortunately. The most I know is why a show got bought in those days."
---
Don said, "Judy, we did find a better copy of The Bullet."
Judy says, "Right, you said you did, Don."
Don said, "I was going to put it on a DVD and mail it to you."
Judy says, "Okay, thanks. I'll let you know where."
Don said, "Glad to do it."
---
Don said, "Thanks for inviting me to the chat, Judy. It was interesting."
Judy says, "You are welcome to come to the next freebie too, Don (on March 3rd). It was a pleasure to have you. Really."
---
<Chat ended about 10:48PM EST.>